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Streets vs. alleys arguments abound

Committee finally OKs seeking estimates for concrete street work

SALEM — The Streets, Alleys & Sidewalks Committee voted Wednesday for the administration to go forward and get estimates for work on concrete streets for next year.

Getting to that point, though, didn’t come without a lot of back and forth talk and interruptions about alleys, concrete streets and whether the committee or the administration has the final say on what actually gets done. Councilman Clyde Brown, the chairman of the committee, called for adjournment, too, before the vote was taken, with two residents of Buckeye Circle still waiting to address the committee.

“We don’t get to talk?” Bill Ward asked.

Brown then continued with the meeting.

Ward and his neighbor, Betty Barton, who both live on the city side of Buckeye Circle, had waited for their chance to speak after being told by Brown earlier that the committee was talking about alleys first. Ward said part of the Buckeye Circle is in the city and part is in the township and they just wanted to see if the two entities could reach an agreement on how to get it repaved. He said it’s been 20 years and the city’s been patching, but added, “We just wanted to try to get on the list.”

Brown said he got an email about the street and sent it on to city Service/Safety Director Ken Kenst, and Barton said she spoke to Kenst, who spoke to both Ward and Barton after the meeting and said it will be looked at. He said the city and township have worked together before on streets.

“We just ask for your consideration. We all pay taxes, too,” she said.

Her comment followed much discussion from Brown on the need for alleys to be done since he said that’s what the voters agreed upon when they passed the .25 percent additional income tax, for streets, alleys, sidewalks, curbs and gutters, not just streets. Prior to starting the meeting, he made a statement about how the additional income tax was passed, how his goal is to see a promise kept and how his committee approved the list of streets paved the last two years, 20 miles worth.

He said he’s been asked by residents when alleys are going to be paved. When he didn’t get any response from fellow councilman about alleys needing done in their wards, he said he drove up and down the alleys throughout the city and came up with a list of 20 alleys he wanted referred to the administration, noting that doesn’t mean they’ll be paved. He said he wanted a list of streets from the administration and then his committee would look at both lists at a future meeting.

When he did start the meeting, Councilwoman Cyndi Baronzzi Dickey questioned what authority gives the committee the power to have the final decision on what streets or alleys are done. He said they’ve operated this way the last two years and it’s worked out well, but she challenged him, saying the way it was explained to her, the administration first looks at the budget on how much is available to spend, then the condition of the street is considered and how much use a street gets for the impact to citizens.

“I’m not saying we shouldn’t do alleys, but we should do the main thoroughfares first,” she said.

Councilwoman Christine Mancuso, who sits on the committee, said she agreed with Dickey. She recalled what was said at a previous meeting and how they applauded the city on how well the streets were being done and that if money was available at the end, they would do some alleys, which some alleys have been done in the last two years.

“I don’t believe that this committee has the authority, I think that’s the administration’s,” she said.

Brown argued that it wasn’t fair to just do the streets and just a handful of alleys, pointing to the people who rely on alleys to access their garages, saying everybody deserves to have good access. He said if the alleys were paved, they would last a long time. Brown accesses his own garage from an alley, but said “I’m not doing this for me.” He said the people deserve it and “what’s fair is fair.”

His list included 20 alleys and he said that’s not asking for much. Some of the alleys were located behind Circle K on East State and behind Papa John’s from Ohio to Woodland, along with alleys off of East and West Pershing, alleys in the area of Sharp, West Wilson, North Howard, North Ellsworth, Jennings, East State, Vine, North Lincoln, Superior, West Fourth, West Fifth, East Third, East Fourth and East Fifth.

“All we’re doing is making a first step to show the people we’re trying,” Brown said.

Dickey again argued that her understanding is the administration plans to focus on concrete streets next year and then alleys and other streets in 2019, which she thought was smart. She also asked what his list of alleys would cost. He didn’t have an exact cost, estimating $450,000. He said the mayor was looking at $1 million to do three concrete streets when they could probably do 20 or 30 alleys for that kind of money.

“Take a look at the traffic on these concrete streets Clyde,” she said.

The streets in question include State Street and Pershing Street, likely the most traveled east-west routes in the city.

Southeast Boulevard resident Lewis Dowd jumped to Brown’s defense about his committee having authority and also questioned spending any money on cement, saying those streets aren’t holding up very good and he knows how bad they are because he lives on one.

“They need fixed, that’s the point,” Dickey said.

“We’re repairing them,” Berlin said from the audience, asking Dowd what he would want them to do about the concrete streets.

Councilman Roy Paparodis, also a committee member, said his experience in business is to sit down and talk with the people who are the professionals and ask them to steer you to make a decision. When it comes to streets, he’s no expert.

“I don’t think that I’m qualified to determine what streets need repaired and not repaired,” he said.

Brown said he thinks the mayor, Kenst and street foreman have done a great job, but it “comes down to what’s fair is fair.” He said he knows when an alley is in bad shape and six residential alleys done in two years isn’t enough. Paparodis said his street hasn’t been on the list and he doesn’t think that’s unfair, telling Brown he doesn’t share in the way Brown presents it.

Mancuso added that the fact other council members didn’t email him lists of alleys “should speak volumes,” saying it’s not their job.

“Do taxpayers that are being taxed the .25 percent live on concrete streets?” Berlin asked Brown, to which Brown said, “I understand that.” Berlin said it was a yes or no question, then Brown said yes.

Berlin explained he wanted the committee to vote on two issues: continue with the concrete program in 2018; and vote to proceed with alleys and streets in 2019. His plan was to use capital improvement money for the concrete street work. He also said he would fight the issue of doing alleys in 2018, saying it’s always cheaper to do alleys during an asphalt program for streets because a better price comes with volume. The mayor then walked out of the meeting, telling Brown he can let him know what the committee decides.

When Brown asked his committee for a motion to send his list of alleys to the administration, no motion was made by Mancuso or Paparodis. He later asked for a motion for the concrete streets program, with Paparodis saying he wasn’t prepared and had a lot of questions about what work was being planned. Without the cost estimates, Kenst said they don’t know what work will be done and that they were waiting for probable costs and options for repairs from an engineer. Dickey stressed that they need action to go forward.

“If you keep messing around with this, they’re not going to get done in 2018,” she said.

The committee had already heard Berlin talk about working on concrete streets in February and appeared to support the idea then.

mgreier@salemnews.net

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