OT main topic at meeting
SalemBy LARRY SHIELDS
SALEM - Layoff related overtime was discussed at length during a finance committee meeting Wednesday morning.
Last week the city put eight employees on "indefinite" layoff.
Fire Chief Jeff Hughes responded to sharply to Councilman Dave Nestic's assertion of "rhetoric, innuendo and false information" getting out there regarding abuse of sick time and overtime.
Nestic characterized the talk as positive and negative rumors on both sides saying "that's the kind of junk I'm hearing."
Hughes said, "I don't know where Nestic is going, but overtime was down last year. This year is out of my control, we're at the bare minimum with the four-man minimum."
Last week, Hughes took issue with the administration's statement that it would save $98,000 in his department by laying off three firefighters. By his numbers, Hughes said it would cost $175,000 by year end and that included him working as the fourth man.
Regarding abuses, Hughes said, "speaking for my department" no one abuses sick leave or overtime.
Nestic said the "rumor I hear" was about abuse of the four-man minimum, a contractual component with the city, and that calling everyone for a fire was "destructive."
Hughes explained the procedure for "paging in" off-duty firefighters was usually the result of a structure fire, hazardous material event or mutual aid.
He said he didn't know which off-duty firefighter would respond to the calls when they were made.
He invited people to come to the department and see how it worked.
Nestic asked about sending people home who are called in and Hughes explained he needed four on station when they paged in a shift.
"I don't know who's where," he said, adding when they come in it amounts to three hours of overtime. "I'm not going to send you home after five minutes."
Auditor Jim Armeni said his (Hughes') hands are tied with the four-man minimum and Nestic said he understood that but wondered about having three men come.
Hughes said it was the contract and was dictated by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and the Ohio Bureau of Workers Compensation recognizes the two men in, two men out rule at the fire scene, which means four men.
"The city has tried to get rid of it," Hughes said, explaining that three men "slows up the attack on a fire." He said right now, with the department's response time, "we do a pretty good job."
Nestic asked about how many "full-fledged conflagrations" the department responded to last year and Hughes said 77 but explained that people have said a kitchen fire is not a structure fire.
"People think it has to be blowing through the roof," Hughes said, adding the quicker it's put out the better it is all around, including for insurance companies.
Nestic asked, "Do you bill people for getting called out?"
Hughes said it's been talked about regarding one-time structure fires.
At that point, Hughes said, "Overtime is going to be so severe it's going to be a hemorrhage. The overtime will be higher than in the past."
Nestic said there are contractual items "that could help" (if changed) and suggested a three-man minimum.
"There are solutions," he said, adding if the union wants to help.
Hughes said the four-man minimum has been challenged and the has union won.
"The only fix I see," Hughes said, "is use the water (utilities department interest) money to close the gap and get two men back" until it gets sorted out.
The interest is about $250,000 a year.
"The union has a contract and will do a memorandum (of understanding) but they won't open it," Hughes explained.
Committee Chairman Bret Apple asked about the utilities money, whether it would go into the general fund or capital improvement side. Armeni said council voted to retain it.
"I think it should remain in the general fund," Armeni said, "it's only going to help toward the end of the year."
Apple noted that was a "slippery slope" if that was done and asked if it was a temporary fix?
Armeni said it was and "might be for only a couple of years - until we get to a normal economic environment."
Apple asked about bringing firefighters back. "Does it allow for that? Or does it just get us through?"
Armeni said it gets them through, noting the layoffs are indefinite.
Nestic said it created more "slop" in the budget to bring some back. "What's going on is not a threat to get another income tax and cajole people into voting yes."
He said they can't have a situation with expenses over revenues, calling that "unsustainable."
Armeni pointed to the contract history over the past 15 years noting the revenues are down and can't support today's expenses.
"The tax receipts are not there," he said, adding that the public has to decide if it wants a full compliment of police and fire personnel.
"What's a full compliment?" Nestic asked.
"What ever that would be ... small towns are no different than a township," Armeni said, adding that levies shift the debt to the public.
Apple's preference was to see the (interest) money go for capital improvements instead of a band-aid fix.
"I might change my mind, but you're indicating it won't change," he said and Mayor Jerry Wolford said that saving $300,000 to $350,000 was what drove the lay-off decision which didn't include calling them back.
Wolford said the one percent tax, in effect since 1968, "will not run this city they way it used to ..." He said using the interest money was a band aid to cover overtime.
He agreed the four-man minimum was contractual but "bringing everyone back with this money - now you're playing mind games."
Hughes suggested doing the math. He said he would create a $175,000 deficit.
"It would be easier to bring people back."
Nestic asked what happened after the balanced budget was submitted and Hughes said, "You can submit a balanced budget, but we all know the truth ... you submit a balanced budget and I know where this is going to go ... a grievance ..."
He said the union will take the city to court and "it (the city) will lose."
The budget is due in April and Hughes suggested again to bring people back.
Nestic said it came down to who is holding the "public at bay" and pointed to the union contracts for pushing costs up faster.
"We all have to come to the table" to be creative and not confrontational, he said.
Wolford noted the city lost its challenge to the four-man minimum and talk turned again to structure fires noting it was the chief's call regarding bringing in another shift.
Nestic asked for an explantation of what mutual aid was and Wolford explained the agreements with other departments.
"Is there a charge back on that?" Nestic asked and Hughes said each department absorbed the costs associated with mutual aid.
Wolford said the four-man minimum on station had to change.'
"If that doesn't overtime will be up," he said and pointed to other departments that operate without it.
Hughes cited a recent fire involving a local volunteer department where they "couldn't get enough people." He said he had "all the respect for volunteer departments" but Wolford said, "I'm talking about four-men at the station ..."
Nestic asked about the paging system regarding issuing the order for those available to come in and to call others off the call.
Hughes said they tested a text message system but some didn't get the messages until two days later. He said they tried it with the same carrier too.
Armeni said the way the city does business "has got to change ... we're at a crossroads."
He suggested that outsourcing the payroll department was the way to go in the long term and said his office was discussing dropping its membership the Comprehensive Annual Report (CAFR) which has a subscription fee of $23,000 a year.
He needed to do more checking to see if that was a "reasonable option," he said.
In other business, the committee voted 2-0, with Councilman Brian Whitehill absent, to provide $7,500 from the general fund for the Memorial Building Association. Armeni said the parks commission was considering another $7,500 to the association and it will have to find $5,000 to offset the $20,000 the city has donated to it in past years.
The committee went into executive session and no action was taken.
Larry Shields can be reached at lshields@salemnews.net
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EarningMyKeep
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03-11-10 10:06 PM
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F.Y.I. Street Dept people didn't go...they are still working and will continue to do so until they retire in JUNE! So why didn't the lowest two go NOW like the police and fire, and if the budget allows, bring those 2 back in June?! Better yet, why aren't there two police officers working until the 2 in the street dept retire?! If you can keep them on til June, why can't you keep 2 officers on til June?! Oh wait.... I know.... go check out the names of the lowest two at the street dept. It's the BUDDY SYSTEM! Also, I don't recall the city being in financial ruins when the Mayor wanted to keep Oesch around AND PAY him, so all this must have happened within a year or so?!!
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concerned
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03-11-10 8:20 AM
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One would think the city leaders would have started the cuts with those of lesser importance to the public safety. Positions like deputy service director, the other housing inspector( Salem went almost 200 years with no housing inspectors). Is there a need for 3 people in the auditors office? How many people does it take to balance a check book? How about elected officials going down to part time positions with part time pay? Our population is only a little over 10,000. Why do we need all of these full time administrators? The city picking the employee pention portion is something that desperately needs changed. One would think the police, fire and street workers would be the last to be let go, not the first. We have to get our priorities in order.Maybe it is time to rethink how we govern ourselves. Getting rid of the people that provide the services is not the answer to smaller government****bining government entities and operating them with part time admin. is the answer.
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Buckeye1
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03-11-10 6:01 AM
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Lets see Nestic go into a burning building or render first aid at a bad accident with leess than adequite manpower. Also lets let him handle a domestic violence police call with not enough backup or answer a bad call on the opposite side of town while on another bad call-workers are just a number!!! Les just make and Lord of the safety forces- he knows how to run them!
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